S'pore's ministers pay "lags behind private sector benchmark

last SG · 2006-11-29T17:37:13+00:00

Don't be an investment idiot!!! There's no one in this world would ask someone else to come and make money from me or us. No one in this world will build or...

ProGovt SG

Hmm... perhaps you should read up the bible more to truly understand what I was trying to say. I wasn't calling MM Lee a prophet as in definition than an expression.

When Jesus was entering the city of Jerusalem, his home town, people questioned his authenticity as they knew him and his family. Jesus was there to deliver the Jews but yet they treated him with doubt and jealousy. Hence, Jesus made the comment that a prophet is seldom welcome in his own country.

I used the phrase to draw similarly between the way Singaporean are treating MM and the way the Jews treated Jesus and I'm sure fellow Christians will not be offended.

That being said, this discussion on religion should end here.

4getmenot SG

not until you retract this statement -

"Maybe only then, through the baptism of fire, will Singaporeans truly realize how much we have benefited. "

ProGovt SG

Baptism of fire is a commonly used expression to describe trouble times and testings. Yes it is from the bible, again.

Singaporeans are pampered, we have been placed in a position of advantage but we are too lazy to make full use of what we have. We have more opportunities to succeed but we expect success to be deliver to us.

Sometimes, people have to loose what they have to truly understand the value of it. That is what I was trying to say.

maurizio13 SG

You not only quote that passage from Luke 4:24.

You compare him to Christ, "promise to rise from his grave", isn't that tantamount to comparing him to the resurrection of Christ.

What "baptism of fire"?

4getmenot SG

Baptism of fire is a commonly used expression to describe trouble times and testings. Yes it is from the bible, again.

Yes - its from the bible

Wrong - its not commonly used expression to describe troubled times and testings especially when you are talking bout an individual or politics.

Singaporeans are pampered, we have been placed in a position of advantage but we are too lazy to make full use of what we have. We have more opportunities to succeed but we expect success to be deliver to us. - Thats your opinion

Sometimes, people have to loose what they have to truly understand the value of it. That is what I was trying to say. - so are you amounting that the loose of MM is equal to the Singaporeans as to the loose of Jesus to Jews? Shocked

[email protected] SG

Out of topic. Shocked

4getmenot SG

Laughing

ProGovt SG

Wrong? How old are you, btw? I wouldn't be surprise if you have not heard of this expression if you are young but I would be very astonished to know if you are already a working adult and have not heard of this.

Even my niece who is just in secondary knows of this phrase.

charlize SG

Woohoo, we have another mee siam mai hum guy.

Be prepared to go har? once every 3 posts. Laughing

4getmenot SG

Firstly - if you want to talk about age, please open another thread with 'how old are you?" or better yet, make a search, i'm pretty sure there are one or two threads about it.

Secondly, - name me a few examples which the term "baptism of fire" was USED. Since you implied it was a commonly used term, i really would like to see some topics or articles relating to an individual or politics that said this very words? yes, maybe your niece can quote me some examples as well..

Enlighten me.. Rolling Eyes

BillyBong SG

A couple of comments from fellow Singaporeans from asia1 forums:

"Singapore key leaders and its ministers deserve good pay. Their pay could be above the benchmark level if they perform well. Any Singaporean has the equal right and opportunity to be a minister. It is not easy for some one to serve the country sincerely leaving their family behind and working for 24/7 w/o over-time compensation. I agree that they must be rewarded accordingly to attract future Singapore leaders."

~Augustine Oei

"Its amazing how our Govt feels that the civil servants and minsters are under-paid.

Look at the ground of the private sectors - we have to get tougher (not better paying) jobs overseas!
The Govt had previously pledged to reduce the size of civil service by at least one-third. That probably was not done but it's never measured anyway. The salaries of the ministers and top position holders were pegged to the top-6% of private sectors. So, how did they suddenly become underpaid?
Most private sectors' employees do not even get more than 1 month bonus this year and the civil service has announced 2.75 month!
If they just keep raising salaries across the public sector, without clear performance-linked measurements made transparent enough, I don't think it is going to be effective in retaining good talents - it shall be more of keeping the massive laggards while the real smaller group of talents will continue to move on.
We've a lot to learn from the successful large MNCs and global corporations..."
~Bronson Ng

"It is indeed an interesting article and the initial gut feel from reading this is the following:
1) Yes. I agree that market forces should decide where the salary levels head for all.
2) However, I would also like to know how the government will be accountable to the public in the case of benchmarking their aggregate / individual performance in line with the performance of the private sector.
3) This direct line of sight will enable a like-for-like comparison in terms of value per dollar obtained.
4) Other considerations in benchmarking should also be revalidated. Example would be the perception of an iron rice bowl (i.e. 5 year "contractual" term) for a minister versus that (i.e. hire and fire mentality) of a top notch banker or lawyer.

We want to retain the best possible talent to manage this country. The best buy-in is through an equitable and transparent benchmarking process leading to the pay increase decision managed around solid deliverables.

Thank you. "
~Joseph Lee

fudgester SG

Uh-huh. So to what level are they going to peg their pay to? Bill Gates? Rolling Eyes

I can't believe that they can actually make such a claim with a straight face. Even G W Bush (aka the most powerful man on earth) receives much less than what LHL is getting. If I hear anyone who dare say that LHL has a greater amount of responsibilities than Bush, I'm gonna start puking blood.

This nonsense is allowed to happen only because there are Singaporeans who would meekly accept it. Heck, when I raised the issue of LHL's pay relative to Bush's pay with my friends, they went so far as to claim that GW Bush receives 'under-the-counter' payments which we'll never hear of.

Under-the-counter my ass. When Al Gore was running for President, I remember reading that his net assets were worth just US$600k.

So let's sum it all up:

1. The higher-ups say that money to help the poor needs to come from somewhere.

2. This money has to come through the increase of across-the-board regressive taxes (aka GST) which will hit the poor more than the rich.

3. Ministers, who are already being paid much more than their US counterparts who have greater responsibilities supposedly 'deserve' more than what they're getting.

Let me see if I can try to make sense of all this warped logic. Confused

the Bear SG

*&^$# lah...

they can't even be bothered to make up a believable lie anymore..

dragg SG

it getting worst under the new PM.

the Bear SG

it took you so long to realise that? Laughing

fudgester SG

Let's face it. They know that Singaporeans are either too scared to protest or are really that stupid to buy whatever that they say.

And for those who do speak up.... they can always be labelled as whiners.

Heck, I've been labelled a whiner by my peers. Confused

the Bear SG

whiner?

does a whiner choose to take up the responsibility of democracy and take the lea-duhs to task?

does a whiner choose to stand up to injustice and ask what's going on?

does a whin...

nevermind.. some things the scared don't even know exist, much less understand Laughing

I-like-flings(m) SG

no wonder i still havent get any pm to ask mi to be a minister..... i'm asking for 3 bowl of rice with luncheon meat nia... spoil market already.. Crying or Very sad

ProGovt SG

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/55700.html
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/baptism+of+fire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_by_fire#Daily_speech
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/baptismoffire.asp
http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Baptism+of+Fire
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/baptism+by%2Fof+fire

I can go on forever... and my niece is laughing

buses_galore SG

So are the minister’s pay going up?

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